Careers
Q&A with Cierra Gross, founder and CEO of Caged Bird HR
Caged Bird HR is the first-of-its kind HR services company to provide employees access to independent HR support.
“As a black woman who left corporate America to start her own business, I can say that companies should be concerned. More and more black women are leaving corporate America in search of better lifestyles, less stress and overall peace in life.”
- What is the current role of HR with regard to helping to facilitate a healthy environment for Black women? And what should it be?
HR does a lot of different things for any organization. Compliance, strategic people planning and a healthy work environment for all employees is within HR’s scope. Studies tell us that black women have the worst experience at work, yet HR has not tried to solve this issue. I think there are many different reasons for that, and the most obvious is that to solve the problem, they would have to invest in trying to understand where the breakdown is happening. I don’t believe HR as a function is having the right conversations about many things, employee experiences being one of them.
2. What differentiates Caged Bird HR’s approach? How do employees use your services?
Caged Bird HR is a full-scale HR services company and the first to offer independent HR support directly to employees. Employees can speak to an HR expert not associated with their company for the first time to get HR advice and strategic guidance. Employees looking for a place to get safe, culturally competent HR support that is in their best interest and not their employer’s best interest can now get that support. The success of the business in such a short period tells us that this service is not only needed but valued in the market.
We also offer small business HR consulting. The benefit of our integrated business model is that we take the real-time data from our employee consulting function and use it to advise small businesses on how to execute HR equitably and become an employer of choice in the talent marketplace as a result. A lot of companies get HR wrong, but if you can get it right, companies will have a competitive advantage in the marketplace.
3. We are finding that Black women experience high rates of being placed on Corrective Action Plans. The SEC did a review of racial and ethnic disparities for Corrective Action because it is a nationwide problem in the workplace. Why do you think Black women are placed on these plans at a higher rate? What can HR departments do to eliminate this disparity?
We support employees across the country, most of which are black women. We see trends in the data, and the cases where the employee has been put on a PIP, formal or informal, usually start with employees not being set up for success. Unclear expectations, frequent manager changes in the first six months and failure to receive the benefit of the doubt are all themes we see when supporting employees through corrective action plans. To eliminate the disparity, I think HR has to be more involved and highly involved with employee onboarding. Currently, HR just welcomes you in and then leaves it up to your manager to onboard you appropriately. A high-touch onboarding experience with scheduled check-ins with HR to examine things like working relationships, manager expectations, etc, would be helpful.
4. Every Black woman we spoke with about their experience with Corrective Action said they were shocked they were even placed on a plan. Why do you think there is such a gap between a manager saying they’ve coached the employee while the employee had no knowledge they were being coached—hence, the shock of an action plan? What role does HR play in this communication breakdown?
Most employees are unaware of how HR works, and that’s by design. So, employees could receive all the signs that they are about to be put on a Corrective Action plan but just think that is normal performance feedback. Part of the problem is that managers are not equipped to give clear performance feedback. HR’s role is to equip managers to give clear feedback and ensure that managers measure performance equitably and objectively.
5. We surveyed Black women and asked them to think about their best and worst work experiences in the workplace and to tell us the gender and race of their manager at the time. Hands down, the best experiences were with white male bosses (98%), and the worst was with white women (96%). With a white male boss, they gave examples that they always got their full bonus, felt trusted to do their job and supported for advancement. With white woman bosses, they reported feeling belittled, micromanaged, bullied, overworked and unprotected. Many claim that when evaluating job offers, the gender and race of the boss is a significant factor in their decision to accept the offer. Should HR consider this when hiring, promoting and disciplining Black women in the workplace?
At Caged Bird HR, we collect a lot of data from employees that reach out to us for support. Our data tells us that employees have the worst experiences when they report to white women, which is kind of ironic if you think about it because, in the past decade or so, white women have become the poster children for diversity and inclusion. Yet, they are perpetuating the most harm in the workplace. Companies absolutely should consider race dynamics, and they should collect and analyze data on exited employees and what was the race of their managers. The problem is how do we solve this when HR is a white woman-dominated field? And HR would be the function to implement solutions to this problem. HR has to start holding managers at every level accountable for inequitable experiences and outcomes in their organization. That begins with collecting the right data and analyzing it.
6. In 2020, the Department of Labor reported that Black women’s participation in the labor force dropped significantly from 60.5 percent in 2019 to 58.8 percent, and many are leaving to start their own companies. We know that Black women are the most educated demographic in the U.S., are known trendsetters, great managers, and make significant contributions to all disciplines and industries. Yet, discrimination and inequitable treatment cause a continuous exodus. Should companies be worried they are losing this talent? In your experience, what are they prepared to do, if anything, to regain this talented segment of employees?
As a black woman who left corporate America to start her own business, I can say that companies should be concerned. More and more black women are leaving corporate America in search of better lifestyles, less stress and overall peace in life. As an employer of black women, I’m very cognizant of the work environment and culture we create internally at Caged Bird HR. I try to create a work environment that is supportive and safe for all employees. To be honest, I don’t think Corporate America is prepared to regain the talent because they aren’t even prepared to keep the talent they do have.
founder and CEO
Caged Bird HR
Challenging workplace discrimination: the path to proving your case
“There’s a price for standing up—the fight is for yourself, but also for the other people that will come behind you.”
Experiencing discrimination and racism in the workplace can ruin a career and impact personal lives, health and wellness. Even when the signs are present and with the damage it causes, it is not always easy to prove. When disparate or harmful treatment violates the law, proof that it occurred and caused damage is mandatory for successful litigation.
According to Reginald McKamie, an attorney in Houston, the first step in determining whether discrimination can be proven in a court of law is to look objectively at the numbers. “First, we want to know the metrics for the particular demographic in question,” he says. “If you feel you weren’t promoted because you’re Black, then we need to look at whether there are other Black employees in management and above or if they are all in lower-level positions.”
He says the numbers will help determine if the problem is companywide, relegated to a specific department or unique to one person. “If all the other Black people are doing well, and you are not, then we have to look at the situation honestly.”
McKamie tells his clients there are three areas of proof needed for a solid discrimination case.
- Comparators
A discrimination case needs to have comparators. It has to be proven that the employee was treated differently than others in another demographic. For example, if a Black woman employee was put on a performance improvement plan (PIP) for being habitually late to meetings, yet her white peers who were also habitually late to meetings were not placed on a PIP, that is a solid comparator.
2. Evidence that another employee in a similar position was treated better
High-achieving employees constantly overlooked for raises and promotions may see others in similar roles but different demographics who aren’t as productive moving up the ladder much faster. “Companies will hire Black women who are top graduates from Harvard, Howard and Yale, and all of a sudden, they get to these companies and are all at the bottom of promotion evaluations—that’s a red flag.” The key is being able to show that another employee with similar duties was treated better.
3. Ensure there is no legitimate, non-discriminatory reason for the different treatment
In the case of Wards Cove Packing Co. v Atonio, it was ruled that in disparate treatment cases, all an employer must do to rebut a prima facie case is articulate a non-discriminatory business reason. “An employer may be able to prove the reason for termination, or an adverse action was because the employee was ‘not a team player’ or lacked leadership skills, which could be seen as a legitimate reason.”
4. Tough skin, discipline and patience
Providing evidence that the discriminatory treatment had a negative impact on the employee’s career is the gateway to determining damages. Evidence may include application rejection emails or other empirical data. “We have to determine if the news of the termination stopped other employers from hiring the fired employee or if it took the employee longer to find a job than a white person in a similar position.”
While proving a case of discrimination against an employer can take months and sometimes years to reach an outcome, the employee needs to understand what they are up against, as there are no guarantees that a good case will be a winning case.
“It’s not going to be easy, and they have to understand that they are going to open their life up to the public eye in this process.”
This may require completely disengaging from social media and forgoing publicly commenting on various topics that could impact the case. “There’s a price for standing up—the fight is for yourself, but also for the other people that will come behind you.”
Bringing workplace discrimination from the shadows
Discrimination in the workplace against Black women appears in the form of stereotypes, excessive demands, an absence of mentoring, exclusion from office cliques, being ignored and/or harassed, and assumptions that they are incompetent.
– Black Women Talk About Workplace Stress and How They Cope
By J. Camille Hall, Joyce E. Everett and Johnnie Hamilton-Mason
Discrimination against Black women in the workplace manifests in various ways, including stereotypes, excessive demands, an absence of mentoring, exclusion from office cliques, being ignored and/or harassed and assumptions of incompetence.
When Black women face discrimination, harassment and bullying at work, they often suffer in silence. If it is discussed, it is likely under the protection of Black spaces, whispered in hallways and taken offline. From a mental health perspective, shame and feelings of failure cause some to keep quiet. Professionally, fear of retribution, being blacklisted or being gaslit are reasons many hold their experiences close to the chest. For a chance at a successful career, they are told to “lean in” only to get punched in the face with less pay than their colleagues, fewer opportunities for advancement and stereotypical feedback that they are too aggressive or not a cultural fit. Although dealing with the agony on their own may be the cultural norm, experts recommend that Black women begin sharing what is happening and act against the maltreatment occurring way too often in workplaces across the country.
“Yes, bring it out of the shadows,” says Dr. Angela Neal-Barnett, director, Program for Research on Anxiety Disorders among African Americans (PRADAA) at Kent State University in Ohio. An expert in anxiety and depression in Black women, Neal-Barnett, says it’s important to talk about the experiences whether it’s with a trusted colleague, out in public, with a mental health professional or even an attorney. She believes the silence masks the embarrassment Black women feel from being the ‘successful one’ in their families, and now, for the first time, they are told they are a failure sometimes without proof or truth. “These things are happening to us, and how can we go back to our moms, communities and families and say, this is happening to me?”
According to the LeanIn.org and McKinsey & Company’s 2022 Women in the Workplace survey, many Black women work in fear. They have felt excluded, experienced having their judgment questioned and received comments about their appearance and demeanor at a higher rate than women in other demographics. They also worry more than others that they will be penalized for their mistakes.
“Everyone has biases, but the issue becomes whether that person’s biases are causing them to treat you differently than other people and negatively affecting your career.”
Blatant racism in the workplace can be easier to define. However, when the behavior is covert and filled with microaggressions and nuances, it may be difficult to prove the incidents or feedback are not based on truth but, in fact, fueled by bias.
“Everyone has biases, but the issue becomes whether that person’s biases are causing them to treat you differently than other people and negatively affecting your career,” says Reginald McKamine, attorney in Houston.
Even though filing a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) or taking further legal action may be options, it can be a long road that takes months and sometimes years. During the process, many suffer from anxiety, depression and stress-induced medical issues, such as cardiovascular disease, that can cause severe damage over time.
“Regardless of getting a settlement or suing or whatever, our peace is more important than any of that,” says Wilson. “Setting ourselves up to have peace in whatever it is that we do is the first priority.”
Some experts conclude that when Black women suffer in silence, there is no respite in exchange for protecting the company or any promise that finding another job will be easier. Whether Black women tell or keep silent, individuals, companies and organizations that perpetuate hostile work environments may still get away with their behavior that can continue to cause harm for many years. Breaking the foundation of systematic oppression in the workplace will not happen overnight. It is crucial for Black women to focus on themselves and do what is in their best interest mentally, physically and financially. Using their voice can be the first step. “Shame and embarrassment can’t thrive in the light, so you have to tell,” says Neal-Barnett.
If legally filing a complaint and suing is not feasible and would cause unbearable or irreparable mental, physical or financial stress, then sharing the experience with human resources and focusing on negotiating a settlement package may be the best option. “You might just have to feel a little bit of hardship for a few months, if you can, to get that package because they’re likely going to negotiate unless there’s clearly no discrimination,” says Wilson.
attorney
attorney
First thing’s first: five essentials for launching your own business
“Why would you want to deprive the world of the space you take up?”
Change your personality, change your culture or get out. That’s the message corporate America sent to Lauren Bell, founder and president of La Cire in Washington, D.C., a company that helps others grow their ideas into lucrative and sustainable businesses. Bell realized there was no need to continue enduring mistreatment in the workplace, believing that if she could bring in millions of dollars for someone else’s company, she could do the same for herself. She started La Cire after she was forced to seek legal help to enforce her contract after the company, where she was literally and figuratively a minority partner, refused to pay out her full bonus. “The day after I got my bonus, I quit.”
Bell used the bonus money to start her business, She decided she could no longer bear the trauma that came with the corporate environment while helping make leadership rich. “My contributions helped my boss build a second movie theater in his house, and here I was fighting for money I rightfully earned.”
Now she helps others realize their dreams through entrepreneurship. It has been over four years, and she is finally feeling more settled. “I am happy for once. I still work like crazy, but I am not screaming into a pillow every night,” she says.
She and her team partner with startups, government agencies, celebrities, athletes and small businesses. Through the years, she’s found the five essentials to building a business from scratch.
- Be clear about your idea and what you want to accomplish
Many first-time business owners start with too broad ideas and are unsure of the value and service their new venture will provide. “When people come in and aren’t clear, it usually doesn’t go anywhere.” Bell says it’s best to take your time to develop the concept and gain a clear understanding of the reason customers and clients need what you have to offer.
2. Tackle the nuts and bolts
Once you have the idea and are ready to begin, you have to handle the important tasks, such as creating a tax structure and obtaining licenses, so your business is set up to make money. She recommends creating a thorough checklist that contains everything needed to be a legal business.
3. Find a cheerleader
Starting a new endeavor can become overwhelming, and it’s easy to get discouraged when, in the beginning, you find clients aren’t falling into your lap. “Having a support system and a cheerleader is invaluable because it’s often difficult for people to give themselves the grace needed to see their vision through.”
4. Say, “yes”
Go to the 7 a.m. networking meeting even if the thought makes you anxious. “I made myself go to early meet and greets all the way in Rockville, MD. No one wants to do that, but you never know where your next client is going to come from.” Bell says that you don’t have to be a social butterfly and talk to everyone, but you should try to connect with a few people who look interesting. “I have social anxiety, so networking doesn’t come easy for me. I stand by the food, stuff my face, and then say, ‘Lauren put down the little quiches and introduce yourself to somebody.’”
5. Don’t be afraid to advocate for yourself
Do not, under any circumstances, dim your own light. Bell tells her clients that they need to be out and about talking about their products, services and achievements. “I’ve fallen into that humble trap, but there’s no need. That seems to be a woman thing where we don’t like to take up space.” She asks her clients, “Why would you want to deprive the world of the space you take up?”
founder and president
La Cire
Undra Celeste: shunned to stunning
Quiet as it’s kept, I’ve known Undra Celeste, designer, owner and creative director of the fashion brand Undra Celeste New York, for 25 years and counting. After more than two decades, while she has evolved, thankfully, she hasn’t changed. This interview is a long time coming. The process started as a therapeutic phone call in 2018 and continued during a vibrant trip in February this year to celebrate her birthday in Marrakech, Morocco, until now on an 11 a.m. Zoom video call (New York time) at our respective desks across the world to round it out for the first issue of Notable. Without skipping a beat, she agreed to be the cover story years ago when the magazine was a planted seed. When I reminded her of her promise while haggling in the souks with a relentless amo (uncle) over a black and white shag rug, her high cheekbones popped as she smiled, “Of course. I am so happy you’re finally doing this magazine, girl. I can’t wait!”
We walked through Marrakech for a week, purchasing items for our new apartments and her upcoming brick-and-mortar shop in New Jersey and finding inspiration for her designs now in Bloomingdale’s and Saks Fifth Avenue. Like in New York, she stood out. Everywhere we went, men called out to her, “Hey, Lady Gaga!” We were both stunned at how a petite, beautiful dark-skin Black woman with a button nose wearing a silky, blunt, middle-part bob could be called someone equally as fabulous but the complete opposite in appearance. We didn’t get it. At best, we thought maybe it was a cultural disconnect; at worst, something a little more sinister. We asked everyone we encountered what it meant because it was happening everywhere, and no one would explain. On the final day of our trip, we found someone who reluctantly shared that it wasn’t derogatory in nature but due to her fly and avant-garde style that stood out among the locals. Although we side-eyed, we could live with that.
“It feels a little like sweet revenge because it feels like, okay, you really tried to crush me; you really tried to put out this fire you knew I had inside of me, but I won. I won despite it all.”
Throughout our friendship, we have maintained an “ain’t no mountain high enough” level of love, respect and unwavering support. However, we struggle to see eye-to-eye on many global and social issues, and that’s what’s true about Undra. She is fervently opinionated, wildly optimistic, painfully loyal and blindly steeped in faith. Yet, there is room for disagreements that allow friendships to thrive and trust to grow. She is the poster child for “come as you are” and works at crafting a life that mirrors what Jesus would want for her, with a little bit of gossip and cussing from time to time. While we may disagree on the economics of Guyana (where both her parents were born)—the South American country that borders Venezuela, Suriname and Brazil—we find common ground on corporate America and its ability to traumatize Black women into entrepreneurship.
Maybe a win is a win because here we are, living our dreams despite the trail of white women bosses who pushed us into finding ways to never go back to corporate. Having both worked in fashion in different capacities, we had a shared experience. Still, the Brooklyn-born Howard University graduate remained in the industry and made a name for herself through the brand, her collaboration with Harlem’s Fashion Row and the groundbreaking Nike design partnership in 2018, where she teamed up with fellow Black women fashion designers, Fe Noel and Kimberly Goldson to create Lebron’s first-ever women’s basketball shoe. When I brag about her, these are some of the accomplishments I list. However, if you ask Undra, she’ll tell you that what she’s most proud of is her longevity in the fashion business.
Nike x Lebron x Harlem Fashion Row – 05 Sep 2018
Image credit: George Chinsee/WWD
“The number one thing I count is that I’m still here. This industry is very hard—it’s even hard for the white girls. My brand has been around for eight years, and I am still here. I’m growing, and I’m being recognized for my work, for my talent.”
This wasn’t always the case.
Undra’s first job was in marketing at Nissan, in their old South Bay headquarters in Los Angeles. She was a Howard ‘School of B’ graduate and went the expected route of getting a job. “It was ingrained. I am the youngest of three sisters; my mom and grandma all lived in the same house, so everybody just worked. At the time, I could not imagine that drawing, something that I loved to do, could be a job.”
She found life in Los Angeles a little slow and her heart a little unhappy. At first, she thought it was homesickness. Close-knit ties with family and friends on the East Coast were strained from the other side of the country where an afternoon drive home to bathe in a bowl of her mother’s famous pepperpot—Guyana’s national dish consisting of braised beef with cloves, wiri wiri peppers, cinnamon and thyme—was no longer an option. Yes, she missed everyone, but something else in her spirit would not go quiet, leading her to follow her passions: drawing and drip.
“I actually signed up for a sketching class at the local Long Beach City College, and I remember my class was Tuesdays and Thursdays from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m., and it got to the point where my entire life revolved around Tuesdays and Thursdays.” By the end of the semester, Undra decided to quit her corporate job and move back to New York to start over as a fashion intern. Yes, an intern.
But that doe-eyed excitement of finally following her heart turned into one traumatic workplace experience after another, which caused periods of depression and withdrawal from activities and people that were once a source of joy. “The thing about the corporate fashion environment is that it’s like corporate America for us, but it’s on steroids because in the fashion industry, I believe—and I think most designers of color believe— there’s another set of barriers.”
One of the biggest set of barriers Undra encountered was a series of white women bosses who she feels abused her. The experience with her white male bosses was the opposite when they were her direct supervisors; however, even when they could attest to her elevated eye for design, business acumen and negotiation skills, they failed in every instance to protect her from the discrimination she experienced. “They chose being white over my safety and doing the right thing.”
“White women’s tears trump everything. Every time.”
She quickly moved up the ranks to management and found her footing with a boss who supported her work and promoted her to her rightful place. “I specifically took a job as a product development manager because of the male designer who was going to be my boss, and I loved it. Then they restructured and put this white woman between us. So, I went from being one of the best they had to suddenly being the worst and needing to be fired. So, there’s that.”
She laments that New York racism is more nuanced, subtle and covert. “They’re not going to touch your hair, right? They’re not going to do anything stupid like that. They’re not going to make a comment about your skin. They’re not going to compare you to hip-hop artists. They’re not going to do those textbook things.”
We agreed that the feeling is akin to being ‘put in your place’ because you’re shining too bright and venturing too close to the sun for their comfort. As they can’t voice it, they manufacture performance issues that, even with proof to the contrary, determine whether you belong. “I felt like because I felt good about myself—I thought I was pretty, I knew ain’t nobody outdressed me or outworked me at no job I ever had—it was kinda like, ‘oh, you’re getting too far above your station.’”
Her final corporate fashion job was the stitch that broke the seam. She describes the first few years as amazing, even with a boss who was indeed a white woman. She shares that this was the first time she had a white woman boss who showed her professional respect and supported her gifts. “I was at this job the longest I’ve been at any job—three years. I was the teacher’s pet and my boss’ favorite.” In the span of 11 hours, after an incident where Undra politely stood up for herself and protected her team from a visiting colleague described as a Texas white woman with a chip on her shoulder, Undra went from a confident, trusted manager with a thriving team to a pariah in the office. She was stripped of her authority and shunned by all, including her boss. “Before this incident, everything was at my disposal, and now I had to ask for simple things because I didn’t want to get out of place.” Though she felt she and her boss had a relationship bound by mutual trust and respect, it didn’t matter after the colleague complained. “White women’s tears trump everything. Every time.” Undra felt she had “been fired but wasn’t told to leave.”
Her boss never spoke to her about the colleague who complained nor asked Undra’s side of the story, and she refused to communicate with her. When the annual review approached, Undra showed up prepared for the meeting. All her accomplishments and exceeded goals were typed neatly and printed out, only for her manager to show up with a blank sheet of paper. “I didn’t write anything because I don’t think you did anything this year,” her manager said. Undra was crushed.
My brand has been around for eight years, and I am still here. I’m growing, and I’m being recognized for my work, for my talent.”
She did all she could to save her reputation and her bonus. She provided documentation of every contribution and all the positive feedback received from her boss and other business partners. Then she gave a copy to everyone: her boss, human resources and the president and CEO of the company. All that effort fell on deaf ears. Her boss was given the authority and support to marginalize and mistreat her. No one batted an eye. Nothing changed. No one came to her rescue, and it seemed as though no one, except Undra, had lost any sleep.
This experience pushed Undra to focus on starting her own brand, and almost a year later, she quit, launched Undra Celeste New York and has been showing up and showing out ever since. In retrospect, she wouldn’t change her reaction to the abuse from the colleague and still doesn’t see a problem with her actions as a manager. Undra takes issue with the fact that she was not allowed any (perceived) missteps in a company where she was constantly cleaning up her white colleagues’ mistakes. Unlike her, her white colleagues received the benefit of the doubt; they received grace.
How does someone with such negative experiences in the workplace create a company dedicated to workwear?
“When my mom and aunts came to this country, many of them started their career in domestic work, so they wore uniforms, but they were very particular. You don’t get in between a West Indian woman and her uniform because she’s going to be the sharpest.” Undra recalls that outside of their uniforms, these women transformed into stylish fashion icons in their own right, and she saw a disconnect. “It was such a code switch. I’m like, the ‘Diana Ross and Donna Summer’ I see on the weekend is the same woman. The same feeling and power those clothes give her shouldn’t be put aside to go to work.”
Could it be that Undra wants to empower women in the workplace through their wardrobes as retribution for the powerlessness she felt throughout her career?
“This beautiful part of us that shows up on weekends, has friends and family and camaraderie, and is respected and loved, should pour into everyday life for us.” In a full-circle moment, a former co-worker told her that after Undra left her final corporate gig, their boss printed out all of her accomplishments and bragged about her in the office. The nerve. With all she did to try and make Undra feel less than, she somehow felt she had the right to be proud and celebrate her triumphs. “It feels a little like sweet revenge because it feels like, okay, you really tried to crush me; you really tried to put out this fire you knew I had inside of me, but I won. I won despite it all.”